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A Guide to Rotund'jere, The Necrolyte

Discussion in 'Scourge Heroes Guides' started by saint, Nov 23, 2005.

  1. saint

    saint Former Staff Member Former Staff

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    *This guide is for 5.84c only*

    I'm aware that his guide is much longer than almost every guide you see in this forum, but I can assure you of quality. If you take your time to read this guide, I'm sure you'll learn some tips which can improve your overall dota playing experience, not just as the necrolyte but as an intel-caster as well.

    There are varying gameplay tactics and item build suggestions, each to challenge yourself and to help your team diversify. Do not be daunted by the length, because the wisdom that you will gain is worth the effort you dedicate to absorbing the information here.

    So now, have you regained your composure and recaptured your breath? If you do, please proceed...Presenting to you...

    Rotund'jere, The Necrolyte

    This guy is all about smart farming and intelligent hero killing. You will NOT be expecting to get a hero kill if you're impatient or overly offensive. Take your time to bait the enemy and when the time is ripe...claim him for your own...

    Points to note:

    -You have 600 range. So use that edge smartly over enemy heroes, especially those who are melee or have lesser range than you.

    -You have poor hp as most intelligent-based heroes are accursed with. But that's OK if you play smart and defensively at first. Under NO accounts should you take part in a "spell-fest", where you exchange nukes with enemy heroes. You're simply too fragile to endure it. You might be stronger than Pugna, but he's just a skeleton. You're a revived necromancer and not rambo, so play it safe.

    -The only time that the above point is null is during mid-late game where you're travelling in a huge group of 3 or more, and you're sure your team mates are competent teamplayers. I'll leave the discretion to you.

    -Everybody learns. If my strategy doesn't work out for you, try again. But if you end up getting fustrated, then don't blame me. I'm writing purely out of my many experiences of Necrolyte. It almost never fails me, and I don't see why it should fail you so many times. If you have a problem with intelligent management or have a laggy connection, it's not my guide's fault either!

    -Play him defensively and cowardly. YES! That s right! As I said, Necrolyte is not rambo. If you survive long and you farm, you win. Look at Sven for example. He looks like rambo. But even a good rambo Sven will lose out eventually to a cowardly Sven in items/cash eventually. Simply because rambo makes you vulnerable to death. Cowardly does NOT mean you do not kill. It simply means you re defensive until the time is ripe.

    -This guide is foilable and defintely not full-proof. I do not believe in any uncouterable strategy unless it abuses a stark imbalance or bug. Sadly, this strategy does not fall into any of the above categories. So, you WILL meet with counters. Once again, it's not the fault of my guide, but I'll try to cover aspects on minimizing the effects of those "counters".

    -There are no level requirements for items.Simply because my skills level is different from yours, and my games are different from yours and the enemies ways vary in skill.EVERYTHING is so unpredictable,I dont see any reason why I should make a guide and impose level requirements to get certain items.I dont even get my items at standard rate in different games anyway.

    His Skills:That's right, we have finally come down to business. I hoped that you read all the points above, because each is VERY important. If you haven't, get back up there!

    Death Pulse:
    The Necrolyte releases a wave of death from the core of his being, dealing damage to enemies and healing allies.

    Lvl1: 75 damage/50 heal
    Lvl2: 125 damage/75 heal
    Lvl3: 200 damage/100 heal
    Lvl4: 275 damage/130 heal

    Heartstopper:
    Stills the heart of a target stopping all regeneration.

    Lvl1: Lasts 10 seconds
    Lvl2: Lasts 20 seconds
    Lvl3: Lasts 30 seconds
    Lvl4: Lasts 45 seconds

    Sadist:
    Reveling in death and pain, the necrolyte gains mana back for killing units.

    Lvl1: 12 mana per unit.
    Lvl2: 24 mana per unit.
    Lvl3: 36 mana per unit.
    Lvl4: 48 mana per unit.

    Reaper's Scythe:
    Brings a target to full realization of his mortality, dealing damage based on how much life the target is missing. Stuns for 1.5 seconds.

    Lvl1: .4 damage per life missing
    Lvl2: .6 damage per life missing
    Lvl3: .9 damage per life missing
    Lvl4: 1.1 damage per life missing (with Aghanim's Scepter)Now that you know what each spell does, we are able to move on to the more interesting parts of the guide.

    But I shall give special mention to his ultimate since the way damage is dealt might confuse new players. Basically, it deals damage for every 1 point of health the opponent has missing from his maximum hp. Example (theoretical with round numbers that are impossible in a real game): X has 1000 maximum health. After several attacks, he now has 500 health. Let's call maximum health variable Z, and current health variable Y. The amount which Reaper's Scythe will do is variable A.

    Now let's do the math. Reaper's Scythe does A damage, calculated based on this simple algorithm (Z-Y)*0.4=A (assuming Reaper's Scythe is level 1, if it's level 2, then use the higher numbers as shown in the skill list above)

    Now we factor in hero spell reduction, which makes heroes take only 75% of a spell s total damage. So the final algorithm reads A=(Z-Y)*0.4*0.75.

    Now let us put in the numbers. Damage of Reaper s Scythe=(1000-500)*0.4*0.75=500*0.30=150

    There,so that s how much our darling Necrolyte' ultimate is going to do to a hero with 1k health at 500 hp.More of his ultimate will come in later,and you ll realize that the Necrolyte is a force to be reckoned with,especially amongst high level strength heroes simply because his ultimate does damage based on a percentage scale and not on fixed damage.Thus it will NEVER lose its effectiveness regardless of how long the game drags.

    Skill Build:
    Level 1: Death Pulse
    Level 2: Sadist
    Level 3: Death Pulse
    Level 4: Sadist
    Level 5: Death Pulse
    Level 6: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 7: Death Pulse
    Level 8: Sadist
    Level 9: Sadist
    Level 10: Stats
    Level 11: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 12: Stats
    Level 13: Stats
    Level 14: Stats
    Level 15: Stats
    Level 16: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 17: Stats
    Level 18: Stats
    Level 19: Stats
    Level 20: Stats
    Level 21: Stats
    Level 22: Heartstopper
    Level 23: Heartstopper
    Level 24: Heartstopper
    Level 25: Heartstopper

    Explanations for skill build:

    -Death Pulse is your bread and butter move. It helps you to farm, nuke and heal. It is pivotal for supporting your creep waves. It s obvious that you should max it out ASAP.

    -Sadist ensures that you have no need for mana regeneration. Simple as
    that. If you have been farming correctly, you will have all the mana you need for your spells. Due to the 5.80 nerf on sadist, it only starts being effective at lvl 3. Still, this does not in any way disadvantage the Necrolyte greatly. I've found that he can still support his farming even with the nerf. However, this does affect the early dagon build slightly.

    -Heartstopper is not my choice of a viable spell at all, unless Guinsoo changes it to stop ALL regeneration literally&meaning, no heals, no item regeneration. Simply put, it s a worthless skill to get as most people do get item regeneration early on. Ok, granted that they do not, what is 10 seconds of no regen going to hurt a low level hero? They will at most, lose out on 20 hp after that 10 seconds (I m assuming that it s a badassed, low level strength hero). Ok, so you want to add more points to it so as to increase the time to 20 seconds. Maybe that s substantial, but doing so will harm your farming and offensive capabilities. Your mana pool WILL suffer as well. By midgame, any decent enemy hero would have gotten regeneration. If he does not, casting heartstopper will not do much. Regeneration is worthless in a battle per se, and in mid game, farming in the same lane for extended periods of time is a rarity. So, if you cast it on a farming, he might be forced to go back and heal after the creep wave. But at mid game, farming is really more of crossing lanes to get large creep waves, and not staying in the same lane all the time. It really doesn t affect the outcome of the game much. Late game, the spell is absolutely worthless. Enemies should all have regen. Besides, he s not going to stay around for 45 seconds without any support. Regeneration of hp is a non-issue. You either kill him outright with your team or he runs away.-Phew, that was a lengthy explanation of Heartstopper, but I had to do it because I know that some guy will come around and claim that Heartstopper is a key skill for the Necrolyte. Sorry, but I really can t see how and why.
     
  2. saint

    saint Former Staff Member Former Staff

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    Item Build:

    This is largely dependent on what heroes I face. However, this is also dependent on my skill level. If you have trouble surviving, then feel free to swap to the alternative item build, which I use against early-game nukers.

    Also, I realized that I failed to include Boots of Travel in all my item builds. If you watched my replays, you'll realize that I get it pretty often by mid game. This is essential for farming, running and chasing. Get it at your own discretion, because the need for a BoT is really situational. If your team is already owning, chances are you don't require it for the "tele-farming" to an unguarded lane. That's just one example of a situation.

    First Item Build: (works like a charm in most cases)
    I farm first and see how long I can stay out in the field without the need of going back or dying. This is really situational.

    First trip back to town:
    Blades of Attack+Boots of Speed
    OR
    Staff of Wizardry+Boots of Speed

    I can stay to farm till getting that amounts of cash before returning. So, try harder if you can t! Practice makes perfect! Sometimes I can get all 3 items if the enemy is really underparred.

    Second trip back to town:
    Blades of Attack
    OR
    Staff of Wizardy
    This depends on which item you missed out on your first shopping trip.

    Third trip back to town:
    Dagon

    Fourth Trip back to town:
    Boots of Travel

    From then on, I farm like crazy once again to get my dagon upgraded. But normally when I hit at 600 damage dagon (sometimes 500, situation depending again), I get a vitality booster. Sometimes, I throw in a point booster before I get my boots of travel if I m having trouble with nukes.The game should be over by the time you get 800 dagon with a vit booster. At least mine always is (whether my team won or loss), so I have little clue as to what else to get if you followed my guide and nothing goes wrong (with your team ideally). SHOULD there be a long an extended game, your best bet is to get a soulbooster, platemail, guinsoo s scythe of vyse and various other items which improve your survivability and team-effectiveness.

    Alternative Item Build(2nd Item Build): (against heavy nukers, like zeus especially, or if you just can t handle no regen)

    RoH asap.
    Boots of Speed.
    Build up to dagon.

    Basically, there s little difference from the first build except that you get an RoH early. Well, that RoH helps tons in farming and staying in the field sometimes, so it might not be a major hindrance to getting your dagon asap as in the first item build. But I generally do not enjoy wasting time to get dagon, so I do not use this build unless absolutely necessary.

    An alternative would be to get RoR instead. I find it workable as well since the Necrolyte heals himself while farming with Death Pulse. However, it does not work against super heavy nukers like Maiden+Zeus teaming on you in the lane early game.

    3rd Item Build: (Killer Medic)
    Belt of Giant Strength or Sobi Mask (you decide)
    Farm farm farm as per normal
    Get Boots of Speed + Staff of Wizardry + Basillus Ring (if you didn't get the Sobi Mask on your first trip, then at least get a sobi mask this time, leave the ring of protection for later) on 2nd trip back to town.
    Lastly, complete your Netherezium Buckler and Basillus Ring. (if it's not yet done)Void Stone(optional, but I prefer it as this build is very mana intensive when you start spamming...)

    From here, you can split 2 paths, dagon OR scepter.
    Scepter basically gives you more pushing power as you have more mana and health.
    Dagon gives you more hero killing potential.
    Choose your style wisely.
    If you do go scepter, get point booster/vit booster/energy booster in that order.I personally prefer going scepter when I play this build simply because it's so fun to have uber creep waves (more explained later on), and the additional mana and health means that I get to sustain them for longer pushes.But if you do go scepter, then you can skip the voidstone. If you go dagon, get the void stone.

    4th Item Build: (my insane and challenging build)
    Mithril Hammer
    Boots of Speed
    Mithril Hammer OR Point Booster (depends on situation)
    Stygian Desolater
    Power Treads
    Scepter/Dagon/Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse (you choose, with this build I go Guinsoo for more teamplay fun)

    5th item build: (going for scepter)
    Point Booster
    Boots of Speed
    Vitality Booster
    Energy Booster
    Mystic Staff
    Dagon

    *edit*I have just finished a friendly match with one of the clans in my area,well,as again,we won it.However,I have come out with a new and perfect build.Here it is:-

    Main Build (note that this build is for really serious and strong opponents and also used in competitions like wise)

    Power threads
    Dagger of Escape ---> Get this first if you're always in a tight situation
    Netherezium Buckler ---> Get this first if you find yourself in a position where you can push
    Soul Booster ---> Massive spamming of your skills and buckler requires alot more mana
    Eul Scepter of Divinity---> While pushing,once the enemy starts to defend with all you got,cyclone them up,once they come down,cyclone them up again.This method requires a few more teammates to do the same thing.This would seriously give loads of time for your team to push all the way.
    Guinsoo ---> And extra disable to push or to kill a hero.Better mana regeneration
    Scepter ---> Better mana limit,a more damaging ultimate

    This is out it works when you're playing with good and worthy enemies.Dagon is not necessarily at all.Upgrading the dagon throughout the whole game to its maximum level is totally a waste of money because when you're facing good opponents,the dagon will do no harm to them.You can kill one,there will be 4 more.Its better to have an extra disable and heal to enable you and your team to last longer in battle.

    Situations:
    Now, I ve been talking a lot on situation depending. What does that mean? Well, take it literally. If you re dying or unable to stay in field long due to low hp, figure out why. Is it a lack of management on your sight? Are you too greedy and stay in the field too long or venture too far alone? Do you constantly get targetted by a certain enemy hero? If so, you re not alone!

    YES! That happens to many players and me all the time! Well, let s discuss simple steps to rectify the problems.

    Lack of management:

    -Do not attack their enemy heroes. PERIOD. If you manage badly, the enemy creeps will end up doing more damage to you.
    -Do not attack their towers. PERIOD. If you manage badly, the towers will end up landing 4 hits on you, and that s NOT a pretty sight on a necrolyte who is frail.
    -DO move back the moment an enemy hero or creep starts attacking you. Run as far as you can back to the tower or till the enemy/creep stops chasing. PERIOD. Common sense.

    Too greedy:

    -STOP BEING GREEDY. PERIOD. (I believe this applies for hero kills&do not chase the enemy heroes into tower range, unless you re very confident of a backup plan which ensures your survival and ensures your enemy s death. If the situation causes you to lose hp while chasing, and he escapes unscathed, you re putting you yourself into a weaker position even if you survive. You lost unnecessary health while the enemy hero, who would also go back to fountain whether you chased or not, survived.)
    -If you re low on health, go heal. PERIOD. It makes you easy picking for sneak attacks by nukers.
    -If you venture too far out alone, stop doing that! PERIOD. Just stay by your tower and farm. Sometimes, I don t even venture near the tower when the game is too dangerous, even with allied heroes in my lane.

    Targeted:

    -Alright, so some hero set his sights on you as easy cash. It s sometimes true. Call for help. Change lanes. Get regen. Play very defensively. Hug your tower. Pick one of those and try it. It works wonders.

    Gameplay:

    Now we re into the meat of the character. One word:

    Defensive!I CANNOT over-emphasize the need to play this hero (and almost all intel-caster heroes) defensively. You attack with range, and you stay back. You move back at the slightest sign of trouble and move in for the kill only when you re confident that you can get it and leave the killing grounds safely.

    Early game:

    Farm with normal attacks and Death Pulse. Death Pulse works does not deal damage instantaneously as there is time taken for the animation to reach the target. Learn the timings and cast it smartly. You do not need to rely on Death Pulse alone to get cash. I find that Rotund jere s normal attacks seem to net kills rather easily as they are damaging (like all intel-casters) and fast. Learn to micro, that s all I can say. I can t help you for that. Later, when you Death Pulse reaches lvl 3 or 4, you should move down slightly to cast it, so that it hits the enemy ranged creep. After that, move back and hit it with your normal attacks, and you should get the gold. Preferably, do this while ensuring that your Death Pulse can get 1 melee creep kill besides the ranged creep. All these takes experience and skill to achieve, so practice, practice and practice, Death Pulse has a radial range of 350 (I approximated). Take note of that, as it ll be important to gauge the distances for farming and using it to hit enemy heroes. And do NOT stinge on Death Pulse if you know that using it will save an allied hero from death. You can sometimes Death Pulse while running if it saves your skin. This is highly situational and hard to explain. One example I can give is that a caster is chasing after you, and ready to land a nuke on you once the cooldown ends. If casting one Death Pulse can save you from the nuke (this takes your experience to know how much the nuke will do to you), cast it and continue running. The cast time is surprisingly short, so if you move again right after pressing D (hotkey), you won t lose much distance. Chances are the enemy will still nuke you, but you survived and escaped due to his casting animation causing him to be unable to chase you anymore. These are all basics of survival, and whatever other tricks possible will depend on the situation. I can t think of any right now.

    OK, so now into hero killing. You know how the spell works. It s based on percentage. Put simply, the numerical values are not important when using Reaper s Scythe, it s the amount of health the enemy has when compared to his max hp in percentage that counts. I ve done the maths and you learn to estimate

    With level 1 Reaper s Scythe: Any hero with less than 20% is an instant kill.
    With level 2 Reaper s Scythe: Any hero with less than 30% is an instant kill.
    With level 3 Reaper s Scythe: Any hero with less than 40% is an instant kill.
    With level 4 Reaper s Scythe: Any hero with less than 45% is an instant kill.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2006
  3. saint

    saint Former Staff Member Former Staff

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    The figures have been rounded up or down slightly, but still stick to that estimate and it should work. It s not as if you will be able to calculate the precise damage of the ultimate in the game itself due to weird numbers and regeneration. If you can, I m freaked out by you and just get the hell outta my guide right NOW.

    OK, so the routine. You go in, you Death Pulse. You use your Dagon. You use your ultimate. The guy is stunned for 1.5 seconds. Chances are he ran back while you were using your dagon and ultimate. Move forward and Pulse again. Yes, Death Pulse does cooldown THAT fast! Use your normal attack if he still isn t dead. Sometimes you can use your normal attack while he is stunned. Use your discretion on how to kill the hero and when to use your ultimate. Sometimes, dagon is not required. Sometimes all you need is a Death Pulse first. Sometimes, you should use your ultimate, then drop the dagon in. All these are situational once again, and it depends on whether the guy has team mates around, whether you have team mates around and whether you have the mana and other unforseened circumstances. Experience dear guide-reader, is your friend. Play more, and you ll learn more.

    His stun has a nifty 1.5second nuke so do not overlook it. It cannot save you if you re running away from an enemy, simply because the casting delay for his ultimate is too long and the stun is too short. I ve tried it a million times and it never works unless you have another teammate around to stall the chaser. However, you should consider using your ultimate for it s stun sometimes, when you can save an allied hero or you need to stop the enemy for that crucial 1.5seconds, so as to allow your team mates to get the kill. Be a a teamplayer please. DOTA is NOT about hero kills alone. It s about teamwork.

    Late game:

    Well, you should work it out with your allies which enemy heroes are the most important to be dealt with. Sometimes they are the support/disablers, sometimes they are the tanks. Regardless, coordinate your attacks with your team mate. Remember that the fact that your ultimate is based off a percentage means that it doesn t matter how much hp the enemy tank might have. If you allies focus their initial attacks on the tank, it s not too hard to drop off 60% of health. Your ultimate will finish up the rest of his hp, taking care of the tank. That s how much I love his ultimate. Remember, even if the enemy does not die, there s the nice 1.5 second stun while he s left almost dead in the red zone. You re a team player. ALWAYS remember that.

    Now, there will be some counters to this strat. One of which is nuking/picking on the necrolyte early game. Due to lack of health and regen, you will need to use some of the suggestions I included above. Tweak the game as accordingly. There s never a hard and fast rule to playing. If you think there is, you re a inflexible player and ought to be shot. Even I do not always follow my own guide sometimes, because the games CAN be everchanging.

    Another counter would be black king bar or magic immunity. You can t do anything but run in those cases. Chances are you should have allied heroes with you by the time some enemy gets a BKB. Focus on other heroes instead. Move back if they are targetting you solely. And if they were, they ll regret it if your team mates are there, since as they chase you, they are fodder for your team mates.

    Some pesky casters love to disable you if they realize that you re a threat to their tanks or themselves. Coordinate some teamwork, if not you re dead. Try to stay back slightly instead and wait for the battle to start before entering directly. Hopefully the caster will not disable you. Alternatively, get a BKB, although it s theoretical and I ve not done it with my necrolyte before.

    If you do get Guinsoo s Scythe of Vyse in a long-drawn game, use it wisely. Honestly, I would try to disable their disablers instead of their tanks. Simply because you can get rid of a tank much easily with team support while the other team loses a disabler.

    As for being owned by stealth heroes like Clinkz, SA and Gondar etc&well, that s not my concern. It s relative on skill and how you react accordingly. My guide isn t specialized on HUNTING down those stealthy, pesky heroes. If you need to survive, my best advice is stick with the team.

    Special Gameplay tactics for Killer Medic build
    :Ok, when you play this build (it's my personal favourite now, thanks to killroy) you basically are the mega pusher. Waitamin, how can a frail old ghostly human-like spectre become a mega-pusher? Well, look at Death Pulse. You heal your creeps, yourself and damage the enemy creeps at the same time. With a buckler, you get to heal your troops and yourself for additional 200 health and 3 armor!

    When you push, use your Death Pulse, pick off the dying creeps for mana, then use Buckler. That's one variant. But honestly, I don't think I need to teach people how and when to heal. It's so easy. If you have more enemy creeps than your own, use Death Pulse first. If you have more of your own creeps than theirs, Buckler first. That's a basic rule you could adhere to.

    However, as always, everything is situational. What I love about this build is that it can save your allies so often with that approximately 500 more health and 3 armor (because you can normally pull-off a pulse/buckler/pulse combo). It saves you as well simply because you can use buckler and pulse while running with little or no stoppage time at all (provided you micro).

    With the addition of Ring of Basillus, you get a sweet +2 armor for yourself and your creeps. In addition you get +1 damage for yourself. Well, every little bit counts for your creeps since they are going to last a long time! And lastly, you get a mana regeneration bonus as well. This item is a must-have for the build! Considering it's measly price of 625, it's very useful.

    This build is fun. Nuff' said. Try it and play smartly and you'll see how you can maintain an entire army of fully healed, armored up, and ravenous creep wave. If the enemy does not have AoE spells ready, it's really a pain to deal with.

    Also, you can go for Headress of Rejuvenation if you really want to complete the "medic" theme. But I highly disapprove as the Headdress isn't very effective when you have good heals, and the green aura is irritating and lowers your chances of ambushes. Lastly, going for the headress impedes your hero killing abilities due to the late-game dagon.

    Special Gameplay Tactics with Stygian Desolator:"Am I crazy?" you might ask, when I rush for a Stygian Desolator with a NECROLYTE. Nope, I'm not. Here's the rationale behind it. Stygian Desolator is a pretty effective weapon for its cost. 60 damage with an armor reduction of 6 for a mere price of 4720 gold. You can get it by level 10 easily if you farm well.

    "Ok, but the Necrolyte is a caster" Yes, I agree. But look at what his ultimate does. It requires you to take down the enemy's health as fast as you can so as to net a kill. As we all know, intel heroes have good base damage. With the stygian desolator's sweet damage and orb bonus, you're going to be doing substantial damage just by attacking the enemy physically. You're ranged anyway. Don't waste the chance! Try it and be surprised. It chews down the health of most heroes with amazing ease.

    "Why not just get a dagon?"Dagon only gives +22 damage for the Necrolyte for physical attacks. You get +24 with 1 mithril hammer right off the bat early on. Higher physical damage=better farming with micro. This means that if you go by this build, you'll probably end up getting your stygian and point booster at around the same speed which you get a dagon.

    "But dagon gives a 400 damage nuke!"At what expense? 245 mana. At mid game, this is alot of mana to a necrolyte who needs to constantly spam Death Pulse. From my many experiences, at least 750 mana is required to get a kill at mid game. (1 Death Pulse, Dagon and Reaper's Scythe). You only have about 900 mana at mid game if you follow my build, with NO mana regeneration, lest sadist and from the int stat. Netting a hero kill means that you probably won't have enough have mana to stay on the field, or continue a push.

    "DUDE! You have sadist!"Sadly, if you've been playing necrolyte sufficiently, you'll realize that sadist doesn't regenerate your mana sufficiently after such a large expenditure. The idea of sadist is to help you farm with Death Pulse, and not regenerate large amounts of mana in a short time. So, with a dwindling mana pool, your pushing capabilities are hampened after a kill. I already had trouble regenerating mana after a kill in mid game with sadist before the nerf. So with the toned-down version of sadist, you can be assured that mana regeneration gets EVEN harder.

    Don't get me wrong that the necrolyte cannot be a hero killer. He can, but he's also a good pusher. Using stygian desolator smartly, I can assure you of a kill ratio as good as dagon, while you still get to push. Besides, with the desolator, you chance of killing creeps increases so it helps sadist as well.

    Stygian packs a punch in late game as well. The extra armor reduction helps when you and your team focus fire their tanks. Makes them fall even faster to the "instant-kill" zone. If you micro well and coordinate with your team, attack each of the enemy heroes with stygian in a big gang bang. Or, note which hero your teammates are targetting and attack as well to reduce his/her armor

    The possibilites are endless. I like the challenge. If you still insist on sticking to dagon, I have no qualms about it. This style of playing is simply a way of making the game more challenging for yourself, but yet improving the necrolyte's overall effectiveness if pulled-off correctly.

    Desolator with the improved Power Treads and Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse is a very potent combination in late game.
     
  4. saint

    saint Former Staff Member Former Staff

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    Explaining the item build on scepter first:You like going scepter first. Well, basically, just go for it. Then dagon right after. However, I find this build very ineffective as it just lacks the offensive edge. Necrolyte shines in mid-game and is a good support at late. However if you go scepter first, your killing powers only kick in at around lvl 14 to 16 (that's how fast I take, from my own experience, to get a scepter and dagon). It's kind of late and I don't find it good. In fact, going dagon first, followed by scepter is far more preferable and advantageous for many reasons, which can be found in this guide. But going scepter first does ensure a greater durability. It might be a good build for the less-skilled in Necrolyte to master first, so as to get a feel to his basic play-styles.

    THE BIG QUESTION AFTER ALL THE DIFFERENT PLAYING METHODS AND BUILDS

    Which is better to go for first? The Killer DAGON or the Mighty AGHANIM'S SCEPTER?

    My verdict.........Dagon!If you can't decide which item to go for first, my advice is dagon. In fact, the necrolyte doesn't really require the scepter at all even at late game. It helps with additional life (mana is a non-issue late game) and that increased damage of 5% higher hp for the "instant-kill" zone of the enemy. But somehow, I don't find it very viable for the necrolyte. He has better options, such as upgrading his dagon, guinsoo for more support, stygian desolator for better damage and teamplay or buckler for uber support.Dagon is the way to go if you want hero-killing ownage, not scepter. Scepter should be the last item on your shopping list.However, this verdicts comes solely from my own experience and observation. If you do not buy it, then go ahead and get your scepter first. I'll get my dagon and our paths shall not cross.

    ANOTHER BIG QUESTION...

    To get a Dagon or not to get? That is the question...

    Of late, many people have been commenting that they can get by without Dagon. I admit that I can get by too without it, and was starting to think if I overrated Dagon.

    Upon reflection, I concluded I have not. Well, getting a dagon early basically sets you up as a hero killer on sight. Any enemy hero will be dead easily if your spells are ready. However, you will not be able to push well for your team ,besides killing off an enemy. Without a dagon, your hero kills will basically come from teamplay and attrition. It basically makes you more of a pusher than hero killer. (getting scythe is a different question altogether, makes you a disabler)

    Well, to further support my theory that dagon makes you a hero killer and uneffective pusher, just note the mana pool of a necrolyte at mid game. A pulse+dagon+ultimate uses up almost ALL his mana if you went for dagon early. You can't push for your team with no mana.

    I shall not decide which style, dagon or dagon-less, is better. You choose. It's merely a play style and when done correctly, both are equally devastating. Effective hero killing can literally stop an enemy's hero growth exponentially. Think about it. You kill him once, he loses gold and exp (from being out-of-field), you get gold and a lot of exp. You kill him three times in a row and chances are he will have little or no cash left. Remember that while he is out-of-action, he can't farm either! Effective pushing, meh, what else can I say? I think Killer Medic already covered that.

    Note that when I mean push, I'm assuming a Killer Medic build.

    Ending Note:

    Phew, finally finished it. I realized many things I said fell back on teamwork. Well, you can flame me for it, but I don t care. It s NOT an easy solution out to the many problems you will face. It s the HARDEST actually. If you can mobilize effective teamwork, your team has a much higher chance of winning the game. It s also one of the most effective forms of strategy. DOTA is never about one-man shows. It s all about teamwork and ganging.
     
  5. kristovorus

    kristovorus Registered User

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    this hero with a. scepter kills with his ulti at around 52% hp rather than 45%.

    Take enemy hero's max hp to be 1000. current hp to be 520. missing hp = 480
    480 x 1.1 = 528. Of cause u don't pinpoint the enemy hero's % hp right down to the single digit, but my point is u can use the ulti when the enemy's hp is less than half. This is important for those who isn't good at doing quick maths ( caculating the enemy's hp instantly ) but i believe most people can estimate half. Nice guide btw. This nice tibtit of infomation is for those wannabe ksers out there :)
     
  6. saint

    saint Former Staff Member Former Staff

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    thanks..but I rather not go for scepter..dagon would be the right path first..only after upgrading your dagon to the max can you go for scepter..making buckler wouldnt be a bad thing too with this hero!
     
  7. Baptism

    Baptism Registered User

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    u should try getting:
    boots
    dagon
    euls
    great for zapping and the regen is good too ur temmates can also run over to help kill if u cant kill properly.
    even better when ur running away. while the enemy is flying in mid air u get away scot free ^_^
     
  8. thedude556

    thedude556 Registered User

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    for me ' refresher ' is a gud way too for its ability to refresh all used skills.So the hero now ur trying to kill cannot scape anymore.if he's still up then its the time to use ur ' vyse ' . dats all i can say . . : )
     
  9. bibby

    bibby Registered User

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    i get... boots, dagon, make treads, mkb, aganhims or guinsoo next... and it should be done... and yeah, at lvl 3 ulti, u can kill someone at 45% hp

    ie.
    current hp = 45
    max hp = 100
    hp currently missing = 100 - 45 = 55
    55 x .9 = 46dmg

    also, the reason i get guinsoo is because hex will make their innate magic reduction = 0% therefore u can do full dmg with ur spells if he is hexed, but if the hero has magic reduction with and item then that's a different story... with the guinsoo, dagon, and ur ulti, ur hero should be the leading support hero of the game since enemies cant make the mistake to get near half hp, or gank you with bad timing with the guinsoo.

    Anyways, nice guide, it's really well detailed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2006
  10. b_tom3

    b_tom3 Registered User

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    Now that heartstopper has been changed to diffusion aura in 6.27 would u still use your skill build?

    Skill Build:

    Level 1: Death Pulse
    Level 2: Sadist
    Level 3: Death Pulse
    Level 4: Sadist
    Level 5: Death Pulse
    Level 6: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 7: Death Pulse
    Level 8: Sadist
    Level 9: Sadist
    Level 10: Stats
    Level 11: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 12: Stats
    Level 13: Stats
    Level 14: Stats
    Level 15: Stats
    Level 16: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 17: Stats
    Level 18: Stats
    Level 19: Stats
    Level 20: Stats
    Level 21: Stats
    Level 22: diffusion aura
    Level 23: diffusion aura
    Level 24: diffusion aura
    Level 25: diffusion aura

    Or would u get diffusoin aura then stats?
     
  11. saint

    saint Former Staff Member Former Staff

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    I am sorry,but I have never tried using Necrolyte in the new versions.So I cant answer your question.I am a noob in version 6
     
  12. DareDevilz

    DareDevilz Registered User

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    incredible guide

    u make necro look like Britney Spears!

    im trying it out right now
     
  13. saint

    saint Former Staff Member Former Staff

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    I have already edited and add a new item build.The build is the main build that I mostly use in competitions.Hope it helps you all out.
     
  14. raikuru

    raikuru Registered User

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    saint why dont u post a replays of how u play .. cuz i cbb to read all those words ..
     
  15. saint

    saint Former Staff Member Former Staff

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    If everyone is going to think like you,then what the use of guides?Why dont you think like this,if you dont feel like reading,dont read.Think about it,are you more tired or am I more tired?me for writing the guide,and you for reading and complaining.Dont ask stupid questions anymore.
     
  16. AngelTyrael

    AngelTyrael Registered User

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    saint trust me you made this guide prety awsome and trust me a noob doesn't even know how to make a guide so that means your not a noob
    ok here is the new skill build ....echilibrated.... (by me...:p)
    1. verry efective against heroes that have les than 350 range
    Skill Build:
    Level 1: Death Pulse
    Level 2: Sadist
    Level 3: Death Pulse
    Level 4: Sadist
    Level 5: Death Pulse
    Level 6: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 7: Death Pulse
    Level 8: Sadist
    Level 9: Sadist
    Level 10: Diffusion Aura
    Level 11: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 12: Diffusion Aura
    Level 13: Diffusion Aura
    Level 14: Diffusion Aura
    Level 15: Stats
    Level 16: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 17: Stats
    Level 18: Stats
    Level 19: Stats
    Level 20: Stats
    Level 21: Stats
    Level 22: Stats
    Level 23: Stats
    Level 24: Stats
    Level 25: Stats
    2.lil echilibrated against heros that have more than 350 range...
    Level 1: Death Pulse
    Level 2: Sadist
    Level 3: Death Pulse
    Level 4: Sadist
    Level 5: Death Pulse
    Level 6: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 7: Death Pulse
    Level 8: Sadist
    Level 9: Sadist
    Level 10: Diffusion Aura
    Level 11: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 12: Stats
    Level 13: Stats
    Level 14: Diffusion Aura
    Level 15: Stats
    Level 16: Reaper's Scythe
    Level 17: Diffusion Aura
    Level 18: Stats
    Level 19: Diffusion Aura
    Level 20: Stats
    Level 21: Stats
    Level 22: Stats
    Level 23: Stats
    Level 24: Stats
    Level 25: Stats

    the second is allmost the same but i left the stats from the start so that the hero will have a lil mor hp and mana against long ranged heros
    if you ask me just use the first one all the time

    P.S saint you shoul'd try yhe new one cose the Necrolyte is a lil powerful with the Diffusion aura :D the heartstoper really suckt...
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2006
  17. saint

    saint Former Staff Member Former Staff

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    thanks angel..but can you explain more about diffusion aura?what is the pro and cons?what does it help in?in what sort of battle will it help out or during farming or what?
     
  18. KingLiche

    KingLiche Registered User

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    Taken from dotaportal:

    Diffusion Aura
    A 350 range aura that makes the willpower and might of an enemy leak out in the presence of the Rotund'jere.
    Level 1 - 9% reduction.
    Level 2 - 18% reduction.
    Level 3 - 27% reduction.
    Level 4 - 36% reduction

    It's basically used as anti-melee. Pros: weakens melee attackers by a good amount. Cons: has 350 area of effect and is useless against ranged attackers.
     
  19. fen92

    fen92 Registered User

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    Diffusian Aura? Lol veri usefull ..this hero can to be said that it is a Anti Str hero...just like magine (anti-mage) ..by the way..diffusian aura usefull like when night stalker was going to killing u ..but diffusal aura help to reduse it dammage..so it quite nice while u running ..u healing and reducing it dammage...and there fore u teammate come to help u..in mid game diffusal aura is veri useful to killing hero ..and i do not agree much to saint guide lol .... anyway refresher orb was used in late game..it shudn't be had in mid game coz u dun hv enuf mana for it ..by the way.. farming dagon at first was not quite good..coz of mana problem..then u nid buy 2 null for a moment if u reali nid ur dagon ..mainly .. at first i oledi farming booster ..it help to add up ur health and mana ..then i with it..i farm easily and get mystic stuff therefore blue wand for me ..if u hav blue wand ..u can get refresher or dagon .. u no nid worry much abt ur mana and ur 1st skill ..when ur hp was 50% u can keep used ur first skill to heal ur self..this hero oso can be siad as a hardly beat hero .. This built was onli my opinion ..u all no nid to copy ..if u dun believe farming booster at first is no a good idea..then follow saint..u can find difference ..farming booster at first is good enuf ..then with booster u can always making the enemy hard to farm ..these opinion was for 6.33b ONLY !! only my opinion ..with booster firstly ..u farm easily until mystic stuff and ur blue wand (agnhnarim wand XD) then u can start killing hero and boots of traveling must b make to necrolyte coz he always cannot chase hero and its firstskill range is 2 short..tats y
     
  20. saint

    saint Former Staff Member Former Staff

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    Getting soul booster 1st for him isnt the right way playing him.Simply from judging you from saying that,you have no idea what items suit him better.And it isnt necessary for you to follow the guide,its just an outline.Besides,I do agree dagon sometimes isnt necessary,but if something were to replace it,it would be guinsoo and buckler.None other than that.From what I can see,you're narrow and single minded.You need to learn how to exploit a hero not only on one build.Getting soul booster IS an option,however,if you were to choose to go this way,you're totally depending only on your skills.And trust me,if you were in a serious match with good players,that build is worth nothing.
     

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